Written by: Judd Winick
Penciled by: Charlie Adlard
Inked by: Charlie Adlard
Colored by: Titjana Wood
Lettered by: Jack Morelli
Editor: Bob Schreck
Publisher: DC Comics
Another week of GL/GA badness? Not quite.
First things first, I do need to apologize for an accusation made last week. Last week, in my review of GA #25, I noted that the final page of said issue would have all scholars of Green Lantern ring lore screaming. That is to say, Amon Sur takes Kyle’s ring and slips it onto his hand and it is still glowing. As has been well established, Kyle Rayner’s personal GL ring only works for him. I blamed this on bad writing, but upon review of this issue I think the blame for that falls upon the shoulders of Charlie Adlard and his pour visual storytelling.
That said, the opening of this issue proves that there must have been very little coordination between Winnick and Raab on this story. And what makes me say that? The fact that last issue ended with Amon Sur laughing over the unconscious forms of our heroes and that this issue starts, with no apparent passage of time, with the two heroes standing up and totally awake with no ill effects as Amon Sur laughs at them. This shows one of the biggest problems this crossover has had and I really think this would have been better had the books featured one writer throughout as it had one artist. It may not have helped the story but it could only have helped the continuity.
I did enjoy this issue, though. Much more than any section of this crossover and I think that is due to the loss of the highly forced conflict between Kyle and Ollie. Oh the two still argue, but it is the arguing of two smart alecks bouncing off each other: not the forced generation gap/name-calling that has taken up far too much of the past five issues. And here’s to finally showing Kyle with some of the maturity and head for strategy that he developed during the Winick run on the book as well as the old sense of humor. I laughed unashamedly out-loud at the line “Stop complaining. Lotsa people would pay good money to be beaten to a pulp by eight amazon women.” I can only hope that it all doesn’t disappear completely when Rabb takes over completely next month. And despite a rough and rather obvious start, Amon Sur is shaping up to be a rather interesting villain for Kyle and the new Corps to fight against.
All in all, this mini-series has been the low point of the Winick GL run and the Second Volume of Green Arrow. Still, it did end on a good note and I don’t think I’ll be taking either book off my reading list for a while… yet.
Showing posts with label Black Circle. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Black Circle. Show all posts
Monday, May 19, 2003
Monday, May 12, 2003
Green Arrow #25 - A Review
Written by: Ben Raab
Penciled by: Charlie Adlard
Inked by: Charlie Adlard
Colored by: Titjana Wood
Lettered by: Jack Morelli
Editor: Bob Schreck
Publisher: DC Comics
It amazes me how with every part, this series gets worse and makes me think “Well, at least it can’t get worse than this.”
Silly Rabbit. Of course it can get worse.
We’ve talked about the plot and the art in past incarnations… and rest assured, those elements are still sub-part. But this issue… this issue achieved new depths with some bad logic and horrible characterizations and dialogue.
For the bad logic, consider this. Oliver Queen is about to pull his “bad cop” routine on a captured alien gangster when Kyle stops him and who tells him “There are other ways to make people talk than just threatening to bash their face in”. He suggests using psychology and ushers Ollie into the hall. In this, case he then uses the psychology of threatening to do something even worse than bashing his face in with his ring, just talking about how it can do “anything” that he thinks of.
Okay… so Kyle resorts to making threats of violence. Ollie Queen backs down from a confrontation. Yeah. This sounds natural.
As far as the characterization goes, Ollie and Dinah both sound perfectly in character… for a Denny O’Neil book from 30 years ago. I don’t think anyone, even in comics, has used the words “lech”, “broad” or “fracases” seriously since then. And while I enjoy a good retro tale as much as anyone, it is a bit distracting in a story that is supposed to be set in the modern day.
Not to mention the “Saw this coming a mile away” splash page at the end. With no spoilers, I will say that there is a revelation on the final page that will have all scholars of Green Lantern ring function history screaming and moaning about how what we see conflicts with everything we know about how the Kyle’s specific ring works.
Penciled by: Charlie Adlard
Inked by: Charlie Adlard
Colored by: Titjana Wood
Lettered by: Jack Morelli
Editor: Bob Schreck
Publisher: DC Comics
It amazes me how with every part, this series gets worse and makes me think “Well, at least it can’t get worse than this.”
Silly Rabbit. Of course it can get worse.
We’ve talked about the plot and the art in past incarnations… and rest assured, those elements are still sub-part. But this issue… this issue achieved new depths with some bad logic and horrible characterizations and dialogue.
For the bad logic, consider this. Oliver Queen is about to pull his “bad cop” routine on a captured alien gangster when Kyle stops him and who tells him “There are other ways to make people talk than just threatening to bash their face in”. He suggests using psychology and ushers Ollie into the hall. In this, case he then uses the psychology of threatening to do something even worse than bashing his face in with his ring, just talking about how it can do “anything” that he thinks of.
Okay… so Kyle resorts to making threats of violence. Ollie Queen backs down from a confrontation. Yeah. This sounds natural.
As far as the characterization goes, Ollie and Dinah both sound perfectly in character… for a Denny O’Neil book from 30 years ago. I don’t think anyone, even in comics, has used the words “lech”, “broad” or “fracases” seriously since then. And while I enjoy a good retro tale as much as anyone, it is a bit distracting in a story that is supposed to be set in the modern day.
Not to mention the “Saw this coming a mile away” splash page at the end. With no spoilers, I will say that there is a revelation on the final page that will have all scholars of Green Lantern ring function history screaming and moaning about how what we see conflicts with everything we know about how the Kyle’s specific ring works.
Monday, May 5, 2003
Green Lantern #163 - A Review
Written by: Judd Winick
Penciled by: Charlie Adlard
Inked by: Charlie Adlard
Colored by: Titjana Wood
Lettered by: Jack Morelli
Editor: Bob Schreck
Publisher: DC Comics
Reviewing Green Arrow and Green Lantern has become almost tragically comic for me. I find myself struggling to find new criticisms of this mini-series as all the same problems keep coming back. I’m almost tempted to just post links to my reviews of the first three parts of this six-part story and say “Repeat As Needed”.
But you all deserve better than that. So generous bloke I am, I will risk looking repetitive and redundant to explain the specific flaws with this particular issue.
Adlard’s artwork is still over-inked. He still has no sense of visual storytelling. And he still makes more “just plain wrong” mistakes in the art. Case in point: last time I mentioned how Kyle is flying around in space without any energy field around him, yet he made a nice green spacesuit for his new space cop friend Amon Sur. This time, not only is he still flying around space unprotected… he is now making YELLOW energy constructs. Either that or something got screwed up, as Kyle uses a yellow device to track an alien spaceship and Amon Sur comments. “Amazing. The Green Lantern ring is truly one of the greatest assets that a warrior could have in all the galaxy.” Amazing indeed…
Amon himself is a sticking point. Played right, I think the character would be a great addition to the series. As is, I think Ollie’s premonitions of something not being right about him were dead on and that by the end of the series, it will turn out that Amon is working for the Black Circle and may even be someone in a disguise, with a story tailor-made to win Kyle’s sympathy.
The characterization is still way off. The plot has been recycled from better stories. And I have to question if six issues was REALLY necessary, since not much happens in this chapter to advance the plot. The only thing that saves it, oddly enough, is the fight scenes and Ollie Queen’s wisecracks.
The ultimate tragedy of this series is that these two writers are very good individually, but are unable to build off of one another's work in individual chapters. Perhaps if Rabb and Winick had co-written each issue this would have been better. As is, the whole thing is a mess and I can’t wait for them to move on to doing their own individual plots.
Penciled by: Charlie Adlard
Inked by: Charlie Adlard
Colored by: Titjana Wood
Lettered by: Jack Morelli
Editor: Bob Schreck
Publisher: DC Comics
Reviewing Green Arrow and Green Lantern has become almost tragically comic for me. I find myself struggling to find new criticisms of this mini-series as all the same problems keep coming back. I’m almost tempted to just post links to my reviews of the first three parts of this six-part story and say “Repeat As Needed”.
But you all deserve better than that. So generous bloke I am, I will risk looking repetitive and redundant to explain the specific flaws with this particular issue.
Adlard’s artwork is still over-inked. He still has no sense of visual storytelling. And he still makes more “just plain wrong” mistakes in the art. Case in point: last time I mentioned how Kyle is flying around in space without any energy field around him, yet he made a nice green spacesuit for his new space cop friend Amon Sur. This time, not only is he still flying around space unprotected… he is now making YELLOW energy constructs. Either that or something got screwed up, as Kyle uses a yellow device to track an alien spaceship and Amon Sur comments. “Amazing. The Green Lantern ring is truly one of the greatest assets that a warrior could have in all the galaxy.” Amazing indeed…
Amon himself is a sticking point. Played right, I think the character would be a great addition to the series. As is, I think Ollie’s premonitions of something not being right about him were dead on and that by the end of the series, it will turn out that Amon is working for the Black Circle and may even be someone in a disguise, with a story tailor-made to win Kyle’s sympathy.
The characterization is still way off. The plot has been recycled from better stories. And I have to question if six issues was REALLY necessary, since not much happens in this chapter to advance the plot. The only thing that saves it, oddly enough, is the fight scenes and Ollie Queen’s wisecracks.
The ultimate tragedy of this series is that these two writers are very good individually, but are unable to build off of one another's work in individual chapters. Perhaps if Rabb and Winick had co-written each issue this would have been better. As is, the whole thing is a mess and I can’t wait for them to move on to doing their own individual plots.
Monday, April 28, 2003
Green Arrow #24 - A Review
Written by: Ben Raab
Penciled by: Charlie Adlard
Inked by: Charlie Adlard
Colored by: Titjana Wood
Lettered by: Jack Morelli
Editor: Bob Schreck
Publisher: DC Comics
I’m really starting to regret having asked the editorial team to let me review all six parts of this story line. If you read my complaints about the series so far what I have to say will probably sound familiar. For that, I apologize. But since Raab and Winick are recycling the same tired plot devices and running gags, I feel little need to think up new complaints.
Just kidding. There are new complaints! So, with a little nod to Nick Piers for the format…
The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Green Arrow #24.
Synopsis (Skip if you want no Spoilers!)
Kyle and Jade are settling in for a night of romance, when he gets a call from Connor. Within minutes, Kyle has flown across the country and is introduced to Amon Sur. Amon, it turns out, is a major Green Lantern fanboy as well as son of Abin Sur (the GL who gave Hal Jordan his ring) and member of a new space cop force: The Ungaraian Elite “Light Brigade”. He explains that Earth is the latest target for an intergalactic crime syndicate called “The Black Circle” and that they are responsible for all the problems Ollie and Kyle have been investigating the last two issues. After thwarting an intergalactic assassin, Kyle and Amon head into space as Ollie does his conducts his own investigation on Earth.
The Good
As I’ve said before, the best parts of the series are the ones that don’t involve the increasingly forced team-up/conflict between Green Lantern and Green Arrow. The scenes with Kyle and Jade ring true. And the scenes with Ollie working alone in the urban environment, tracking down leads work very well. And I have go give Raab credit for some wonderful dialogue lines. Particularly…“I’ll be the first to admit when I’m out of my depth, but I’ll be damned if I’m not the last man standing when the smoke clears.” And the GL fan in me cheered when Kyle refered to The Book of Oa.
The Bad
More Ollie/Kyle fighting. More forced name-calling. Yawn. The characterization seems even more off this issue, with Ollie being unusually insecure regarding his image as a hero when his charges draw pictures of their favorite superheroes… and Green Arrow isn’t one of them.
Am I the only one who thinks it is odd that one of the kids drew Black Canary, but not ONE drew Green Arrow? Star City’s hero and local legend of over a decade? Especially since (more on this in a minute) the kids apparently know who Ollie is?
I’ve talked about the overshadowing in the artwork before, so I don’t need to say anything this time except that Adlard’s artwork is still over-inked. This time, I noticed that the colors are also far too muted. With the exception of the dark blue worn by Connor and the dark green of Kyle’s costume, everything is a light pastel and the whole book looks muted as washed out as an old pair of jeans. It looks horrible, especially Amon Sur’s uniform, which can’t seem to decide on being blue or green.
The Ugly
Would it be too much to ask for a definitive statement as to where Oliver Queen stands on his secret identity? In the Smith run, the soulless Ollie was trying to protect his ID but was informed by Batman that his being Green Arrow was public knowledge, thanks to the obituaries published after his heroic death. In the Meltzer run, Ollie was trying to track down items that could reveal his secret identity, presumably a non-issue according to Smith. And now, Raab has Ollie hosting alien entities in his place of business… and THINKS NOTHING OF THE KIDS WHO APPARENTLY DON’T KNOW HE IS A SUPERHERO PLAYING WITH HIM?
I mean, what are these kids saying when they got home? Suppose that one parent actually DOES believe it when their child tells a story about the odd red-skinned man at Mr. Queen’s place?
I’m just going to hope that this was a mistake on the part of the artist, since no reference is made to the kids in the dialogue. Adlard has very little sense as a visual storyteller, neglecting to draw anything around Kyle to show him being protected in deep space, though Amon Sur does get a nice spiffy space suit.
Penciled by: Charlie Adlard
Inked by: Charlie Adlard
Colored by: Titjana Wood
Lettered by: Jack Morelli
Editor: Bob Schreck
Publisher: DC Comics
I’m really starting to regret having asked the editorial team to let me review all six parts of this story line. If you read my complaints about the series so far what I have to say will probably sound familiar. For that, I apologize. But since Raab and Winick are recycling the same tired plot devices and running gags, I feel little need to think up new complaints.
Just kidding. There are new complaints! So, with a little nod to Nick Piers for the format…
The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of Green Arrow #24.
Synopsis (Skip if you want no Spoilers!)
Kyle and Jade are settling in for a night of romance, when he gets a call from Connor. Within minutes, Kyle has flown across the country and is introduced to Amon Sur. Amon, it turns out, is a major Green Lantern fanboy as well as son of Abin Sur (the GL who gave Hal Jordan his ring) and member of a new space cop force: The Ungaraian Elite “Light Brigade”. He explains that Earth is the latest target for an intergalactic crime syndicate called “The Black Circle” and that they are responsible for all the problems Ollie and Kyle have been investigating the last two issues. After thwarting an intergalactic assassin, Kyle and Amon head into space as Ollie does his conducts his own investigation on Earth.
The Good
As I’ve said before, the best parts of the series are the ones that don’t involve the increasingly forced team-up/conflict between Green Lantern and Green Arrow. The scenes with Kyle and Jade ring true. And the scenes with Ollie working alone in the urban environment, tracking down leads work very well. And I have go give Raab credit for some wonderful dialogue lines. Particularly…“I’ll be the first to admit when I’m out of my depth, but I’ll be damned if I’m not the last man standing when the smoke clears.” And the GL fan in me cheered when Kyle refered to The Book of Oa.
The Bad
More Ollie/Kyle fighting. More forced name-calling. Yawn. The characterization seems even more off this issue, with Ollie being unusually insecure regarding his image as a hero when his charges draw pictures of their favorite superheroes… and Green Arrow isn’t one of them.
Am I the only one who thinks it is odd that one of the kids drew Black Canary, but not ONE drew Green Arrow? Star City’s hero and local legend of over a decade? Especially since (more on this in a minute) the kids apparently know who Ollie is?
I’ve talked about the overshadowing in the artwork before, so I don’t need to say anything this time except that Adlard’s artwork is still over-inked. This time, I noticed that the colors are also far too muted. With the exception of the dark blue worn by Connor and the dark green of Kyle’s costume, everything is a light pastel and the whole book looks muted as washed out as an old pair of jeans. It looks horrible, especially Amon Sur’s uniform, which can’t seem to decide on being blue or green.
The Ugly
Would it be too much to ask for a definitive statement as to where Oliver Queen stands on his secret identity? In the Smith run, the soulless Ollie was trying to protect his ID but was informed by Batman that his being Green Arrow was public knowledge, thanks to the obituaries published after his heroic death. In the Meltzer run, Ollie was trying to track down items that could reveal his secret identity, presumably a non-issue according to Smith. And now, Raab has Ollie hosting alien entities in his place of business… and THINKS NOTHING OF THE KIDS WHO APPARENTLY DON’T KNOW HE IS A SUPERHERO PLAYING WITH HIM?
I mean, what are these kids saying when they got home? Suppose that one parent actually DOES believe it when their child tells a story about the odd red-skinned man at Mr. Queen’s place?
I’m just going to hope that this was a mistake on the part of the artist, since no reference is made to the kids in the dialogue. Adlard has very little sense as a visual storyteller, neglecting to draw anything around Kyle to show him being protected in deep space, though Amon Sur does get a nice spiffy space suit.
Monday, April 21, 2003
Green Lantern #162 - A Review
Written by: Ben Raab
Penciled by: Charlie Adlard
Inked by: Charlie Adlard
Colored by: Tatjana Wood
Lettered by: Jack Morelli
Editor: Bob Schreck
Publisher: DC Comics
Welcome back to the Steel Cage! This Steel Cage continues our new experimental format, where a book is discussed between two reviewers. This time, our own “Starman” Matt Morrison and Daron “The Editor” Kappauff will be trading words (and possibly blows) over Green Lantern #162. We encourage all our readers to let us know if they like this new format or the old one where two differing reviews were pieced together. But for now, enjoy a very surprising rumble!
Matt: Okay: our topic is Green Lantern # 162. Part Two of the highly-anticipated Black Circle: Urban Knights miniseries. I think the first question should be what did you think of the first part of this mini-series, Green Arrow #23?
Daron: To be honest, I wasn't too thrilled with it. I thought the dialogue… actually, the whole situation was forced.
Matt: You mean the scene with Ollie and Kyle toward the end or the whole book in general?
Daron: The whole crossover. It feels more like a hyped event than a real story.
Matt: I know. Its like the only reason for the story’s existence is to bring in the Nostalgia dollar. "Hey kids! Look! GL/GA together again!"
Daron: Pretty much.
Matt: Is there anything you did like about the first part of the story?
Daron: Not a lot. I think Kyle has grown a lot since he took the ring and the depiction of him getting pissed off because some back-from-the-dead-hero says he's not GL just didn't jive with how he is now.
Matt: *nods* Well, this may be a shock but I actually agree with most of that assessment.
Daron: Any other thoughts on the previous issue then?
Matt: I won't go into much detail over what I thought of the book (you can read that in my previous review) but I think the whole story derailed the minute they put Kyle and Ollie in the same room.
Daron: Agreed
Matt: Rabb did a good job depicting the two apart. The first half with Ollie was classic Mike Grell urban avenger material. The second half with Kyle felt lie a mix of the darker Winnick stories with more of the Ron Marz-style humor. But as soon as they put them in the room and try and try and make the two not like each other.... it just gets BAD.
Daron: And then goes from bad to worse very quickly.
Matt: Well, I did point out in my review that when you consider how badly Ollie treated Kyle a few issues back in the GA title, Kyle having a bit of attitude is understandable.
Daron: Yes, but I still think he over reacted and has shown he's normally above childish name calling.
Matt: Well, the key word is normally. I mean, he's a lot more capable than he was in the early Marz days. But Kyle is a fairly emotional guy.
Daron: I hear you, but I still think it was forced and thought it could be handled better.
Matt: I agree. And there's something I noticed in the rereading : Kyle actually does refer to that incident. There's no "See Issue 19” box or anything, but he does make a sarcastic reference to their "hanging out and talking on the JLA Watchtower". The only problem is that you have to have read that issue to get the reference.
Daron: Right.
Matt: Which brings us to Part 2 and the book we are actually supposed to be discussing..
Daron: Well with that in mind, what was your thought on the two of them at the beginning of the issue, with the "no, we weren't fighting”, “of course not" talk to the police?
Matt: You ever see a pair of five-year-olds fighting over the last cookie and then getting yelled at? Put them in costumes and that's what it looked like.
Daron: That's what I thought too. It annoyed me even more than the end of the last issue. I mean, how old are these guys?
Matt: Well, it isn't like either of them has ever been the poster boy for maturity
Daron: Well, they're definitely not making any headway either.
Matt: No. Of course immediately after the cops leave, they DO try to reconcile.
Daron: Kyle tries anyway.
Matt: Actually, Ollie apologizes first. He does it in a very rude manner, but he does apologize first.
Daron: An obligatory one, just to get Kyle to leave.
Matt: I suppose.
Daron: And then we get the usual Batman-esque scene where the "partner" states that they need to team up, and Batman says "NO! Get out of my town.", with Ollie in the Batman role.
Matt: And then Ollie gives the very forced "You aren't Hal Jordan" speech. Thankfully once Connor shows up and the name calling stops.
Daron: What are your thoughts on the issue in general?
Matt: I like parts of it. But in general, the whole thing does feel forced and the best moments come when the two characters they are trying to team up are working apart. Still, it got better as it went along.
Daron: Exactly. Personally, I thought this issue was a lot better than part one. But it would have been pretty hard for it to be worse.
Matt: The big problem is that there really is no reason (aside from my observation about the events of GA #19) for these two guys to not like each other. Connor even says as much, saying the two are a lot alike; they are both are stubborn and when they get ticked off, they do get insulting towards their friends to the point where they just deserve to get hit. And growth aside, that is true. Kyle got downright mean to The Flash and Batman during the whole incident with his friend Terry in GL a few months ago.
Daron: That's true, but hardly the basis for a conflict that is the basis of a six-part story.
Matt: Yeah. If they had built this up a bit and had them driving each other crazy over the middle of the journey, like the old Hal/Ollie stories... or even the more recent Kyle/Connor stories....
Daron: Well as you said, it seemed to pick up as the issue went along, though not till much later.
Matt: Yeah... the scene with Kyle shaking down the thugs was funny, although somewhat inappropriate considering the story a few issues ago where he nearly went over the line. But the scene with Ollie working with the kids.... and the final page..... ooh, that was good.
Daron: And I want to get to that scene with the kids in a second, but I want to talk about the thugs first.
Matt: What about them?
Daron: This is what we basically are told. When another hero insults Kyle he first pops said hero then he attacks random muggers and drug dealers. But when a group of mobsters all shoot at him and literally try to KILL him, he just says "Stop it", takes away their guns and goes on and has a nice sit down with them?
Matt: Yeah. And Jade chews him out for that.
Daron: Which was good, but him doing it was the unbelievable part.
Matt: So maybe he's trying a more reasoned approach? Or maybe he's hoping "Hey, if I don't go in looking for trouble, they'll be reasonable.” Heck, I'd even be willing to allow that Kyle is at the point in New York that when he shows up, a crook will just surrender rather than draw things out. It does happen in the Superman books in Metropolis.
Daron: Maybe, but it's hard to believe that he wouldn't be more upset about someone trying to kill him than insulting him
Matt: Well, it isn’t like he has much to fear from a bunch of gangsters with guns.
Daron: I guess, just something that annoyed me
Matt: I understand. And I have to stretch to find a way to justify it myself. I don’t know. I think one writer should have written this story.
Daron: I think so too, and I don't think it needed to be done as a "crossover"
Matt: It is weird that two good writers can’t make something together. I like Winnick usually. And I liked the solo story Rabb wrote for the GL Secret Files even more. It was one of the more thoughtful and mature stories in recent memory and showed a great respect for the past history that Winnick often ignores. Not much superheroics. Just pure talking heads and emotion.
Daron: I read that same story and liked it. That's the type of thing I was hoping we’d see here. Not some intergalctic bleach smuggling story where half the action is between the two “heroes” fighting.
Matt: Just action action action…
Daron: Have you noticed that both Ollie and Kyle try to be Batman throughout the story?
Matt: Well, Ollie has always been Batman lite.
Daron: True.
Matt: And Kyle? Well... he's been getting closer and closer to it.
Daron: Maybe that's their problem. They both want to be Batman and feel threatened by the competition?
Matt: Hmmm... not so much. I think perhaps they are both used to being the one in charge and don't like having another person pushing on the top of the pyramid. I mean, they DO work well with others. Ollie has his extended family and Kyle has his group of Lanterns and Darkstars....
Daron: Well as Jade says, what spandex wearing male doesn't?
Matt: True.
Daron: As you said earlier though in relation to the Kyle/Ollie situation, I think the whole thing with the children really came out of nowhere. I’ve read the title since issue #1, and it's been so long since they've mentioned that he works with children that I forgot about it entirely. I also have some problems with the continuity.
Matt: Yes, I remember you said that you were wondering about where this story fit in the timeline, considering Kyle's presence on Earth. For that matter, Connor says Ollie needs a vacation. What about the vacation he took last issue? The whole “finding his roots” trip he took back to the island where he first perfected his archery skills?
Daron: I don’t know.
Matt: Me either. I mean, this COULD be happening before Kyle went into space, but after the whole Archer's Quest story line. And the one-shot story COULD take place after this. But we don't want to nitpick the hows and whys of when this happens. We just want a decent story!
Daron: But that's what we do, as fans and readers.
Matt: Yes. I mean that we do this, but we shouldn’t have to.
Daron: Right. We want a cohesive linear story but we shouldn't have to fight tooth and nail to make sense of the different stories take place. Would it be so hard to throw in a little box saying these events take place before Kyle left for space or something?
Matt: True. But DC is trying to give their writers greater freedom to tell good stories and not be slaves to continuity. To give the best example of this right now, in JLA Batman and Wonder Woman are dating while in Batman, he's dealing with his feelings for Catwoman. And I heard there's yet another woman in one of the other Batman books....
The Art
Daron: What do you think of the art?
Matt: The constructs are gorgeous. I did laughed out loud at the sumo wrestlers and the one gangster yeling "Boss! He's throwing Big Japanese Guys at us! RUNNNNN!"
Daron: That was amusing.
Matt: The sumo. The demented elves. Ther’s the Kyle Rayner we know and love.
Daron: Oscar the Grouch too.
Matt: I missed that.
Daron: When one of the muggers was about to hit Kyle with a trash can? Oscar pops out and hits the mugger.
Matt: Oh yeah! I forgot that one.
Daron: That was a nice moment. The constructs were good.
Matt: Yeah, but most of the time the artwork seems a bit too heavily inked.
Daron: My thoughts exactly.
Matt: I mean, I know we're going for a darker atmosphere than usual.... but when the guy who has a glowing green chest emblem looks like he's lost in the shadows…
Daron: At first I wanted to rip into the penciler, but it's hard to tell what his original lines might have been.
Matt: The penciler and inker are one in the same, in this case. Art by Charlie Adlard.
Daron: So why this guy? I've never even heard of him before. You'd think they would want a big name on something like they've been hyping so much.
Matt: Yeah. I miss Phil Hester and Matt Wagner.
Daron: My original thought stands, then. The inks are far too heavy. I want to know what the pencils look liked before. I can't even honestly say I don't like them cause I can't see them for the inks.
Matt: Well, there are places where you can see the pencils, but even there they are too finely detailed. Like the scenes in the woods at the end with Ollie? Everything looks sketchy... like the pine trees where it looks like every individual needle was drawn.
Daron: It's funny how clean the constructs look in relation to everything else.
Matt: Yes. And aside from the overshadowing, there are some points where the proportions are weird too. Like the third panel on page 21? There is an Up-view shot of Ollie where his arms and head are freakishly tiny, but his torso and legs look like Chris Farley.
Daron: Nice!
Matt: I don't know. I don't mind some shadowy artists. Tony Harris, for example, is one of my favorites. But he usually keeps his lines simple. This is just too complex, except for when the constructs are done.
Daron: My thoughts exactly. Tony Harris is great with shadows, but his lines are cleaner.
Matt: See, at first I thought the art was intentionally like this. Like the shadows were to represent Ollie's world... and here comes Kyle, butting in with his big cartoony light shapes. Like they are trying to combine the art to fit both characters and creating something that doesn't work for either.
Daron: Yeah I thought that too, but Kyle's scenes are just as dark
Matt: In this issue, they are yes. Last issue that seemed like a valid idea but the whole thing is too shadowy this time.
Daron: Getting back to the plot for a second, earlier you mentioned Ollie and the kids on the mountain…I didn't get that scene at all. Who are these kids? I've been reading the series and I can't remember having ever seen them before. Who are they and why do they know he's GA?
Matt: Did you read the Kevin Smith GA series? Ollie's day job is running the Star City Youth Center. It wasn't touched on during the Meltzer run, but presumably he's still been working at that.
Daron: Okay, but do they know he's Green Arrow?
Matt: No. He just tells them to stay put while he takes a look at something. He never says anything about putting on his costume or anything. He just does the protective responsible elder thing: stay put, I'll check it out... call for help if I don't come back.
Daron: Looking back over the last few panels it's kind of funny how his bow just appears…
Matt: Tell you the truth, I thought it was odder that Ollie has a celphone than his suddenly having a bow. I mean, he could have put it together while on the run…
Daron: It's not a compound bow show in the art.
Matt: Well, I know (comic geek moment) Ollie does not like using compound bows.
Daron: I know. In fact he made fun of Arsenal in an earlier issue for using one.
Matt: Aha! So he DID pull a bow out of nowhere!
Daron: Exactly. To me that's bad story telling, plain and simple. It's the little things like that which make people take notice.
Matt: Yeah.
The Big Finish
Matt: I don't know anymore... I really want to like this story. There are parts that I love... and parts that I hate. And the whole thing is just kinda... blah. Last week I couldn't wait to see this issue to see what would happen next. This time, I can't wait for the whole mess to end.
Daron: My thoughts exactly, I wanted to like this story a lot, GL is one of my favorite characters, and I've always found GA to be interesting. I've liked their interaction before, but this just doesn't feel right in this story.
Matt: I still want to know what is going to happen next…especially with the final page cliffhanger.
Daron: The story line has a lot of potential, but we’ve basically learned nothing more than that these aliens are using bleach to make drugs in the two issues.
Matt: Yeah, it does feel like they are dragging it out a bit. Still, it has some good points. I’ll give this a solid 4.0. Not the best or worst thing ever written, but it should be a LOT better.
Daron: Agreed. 4.0 for me too.
Penciled by: Charlie Adlard
Inked by: Charlie Adlard
Colored by: Tatjana Wood
Lettered by: Jack Morelli
Editor: Bob Schreck
Publisher: DC Comics
Welcome back to the Steel Cage! This Steel Cage continues our new experimental format, where a book is discussed between two reviewers. This time, our own “Starman” Matt Morrison and Daron “The Editor” Kappauff will be trading words (and possibly blows) over Green Lantern #162. We encourage all our readers to let us know if they like this new format or the old one where two differing reviews were pieced together. But for now, enjoy a very surprising rumble!
Matt: Okay: our topic is Green Lantern # 162. Part Two of the highly-anticipated Black Circle: Urban Knights miniseries. I think the first question should be what did you think of the first part of this mini-series, Green Arrow #23?
Daron: To be honest, I wasn't too thrilled with it. I thought the dialogue… actually, the whole situation was forced.
Matt: You mean the scene with Ollie and Kyle toward the end or the whole book in general?
Daron: The whole crossover. It feels more like a hyped event than a real story.
Matt: I know. Its like the only reason for the story’s existence is to bring in the Nostalgia dollar. "Hey kids! Look! GL/GA together again!"
Daron: Pretty much.
Matt: Is there anything you did like about the first part of the story?
Daron: Not a lot. I think Kyle has grown a lot since he took the ring and the depiction of him getting pissed off because some back-from-the-dead-hero says he's not GL just didn't jive with how he is now.
Matt: *nods* Well, this may be a shock but I actually agree with most of that assessment.
Daron: Any other thoughts on the previous issue then?
Matt: I won't go into much detail over what I thought of the book (you can read that in my previous review) but I think the whole story derailed the minute they put Kyle and Ollie in the same room.
Daron: Agreed
Matt: Rabb did a good job depicting the two apart. The first half with Ollie was classic Mike Grell urban avenger material. The second half with Kyle felt lie a mix of the darker Winnick stories with more of the Ron Marz-style humor. But as soon as they put them in the room and try and try and make the two not like each other.... it just gets BAD.
Daron: And then goes from bad to worse very quickly.
Matt: Well, I did point out in my review that when you consider how badly Ollie treated Kyle a few issues back in the GA title, Kyle having a bit of attitude is understandable.
Daron: Yes, but I still think he over reacted and has shown he's normally above childish name calling.
Matt: Well, the key word is normally. I mean, he's a lot more capable than he was in the early Marz days. But Kyle is a fairly emotional guy.
Daron: I hear you, but I still think it was forced and thought it could be handled better.
Matt: I agree. And there's something I noticed in the rereading : Kyle actually does refer to that incident. There's no "See Issue 19” box or anything, but he does make a sarcastic reference to their "hanging out and talking on the JLA Watchtower". The only problem is that you have to have read that issue to get the reference.
Daron: Right.
Matt: Which brings us to Part 2 and the book we are actually supposed to be discussing..
Daron: Well with that in mind, what was your thought on the two of them at the beginning of the issue, with the "no, we weren't fighting”, “of course not" talk to the police?
Matt: You ever see a pair of five-year-olds fighting over the last cookie and then getting yelled at? Put them in costumes and that's what it looked like.
Daron: That's what I thought too. It annoyed me even more than the end of the last issue. I mean, how old are these guys?
Matt: Well, it isn't like either of them has ever been the poster boy for maturity
Daron: Well, they're definitely not making any headway either.
Matt: No. Of course immediately after the cops leave, they DO try to reconcile.
Daron: Kyle tries anyway.
Matt: Actually, Ollie apologizes first. He does it in a very rude manner, but he does apologize first.
Daron: An obligatory one, just to get Kyle to leave.
Matt: I suppose.
Daron: And then we get the usual Batman-esque scene where the "partner" states that they need to team up, and Batman says "NO! Get out of my town.", with Ollie in the Batman role.
Matt: And then Ollie gives the very forced "You aren't Hal Jordan" speech. Thankfully once Connor shows up and the name calling stops.
Daron: What are your thoughts on the issue in general?
Matt: I like parts of it. But in general, the whole thing does feel forced and the best moments come when the two characters they are trying to team up are working apart. Still, it got better as it went along.
Daron: Exactly. Personally, I thought this issue was a lot better than part one. But it would have been pretty hard for it to be worse.
Matt: The big problem is that there really is no reason (aside from my observation about the events of GA #19) for these two guys to not like each other. Connor even says as much, saying the two are a lot alike; they are both are stubborn and when they get ticked off, they do get insulting towards their friends to the point where they just deserve to get hit. And growth aside, that is true. Kyle got downright mean to The Flash and Batman during the whole incident with his friend Terry in GL a few months ago.
Daron: That's true, but hardly the basis for a conflict that is the basis of a six-part story.
Matt: Yeah. If they had built this up a bit and had them driving each other crazy over the middle of the journey, like the old Hal/Ollie stories... or even the more recent Kyle/Connor stories....
Daron: Well as you said, it seemed to pick up as the issue went along, though not till much later.
Matt: Yeah... the scene with Kyle shaking down the thugs was funny, although somewhat inappropriate considering the story a few issues ago where he nearly went over the line. But the scene with Ollie working with the kids.... and the final page..... ooh, that was good.
Daron: And I want to get to that scene with the kids in a second, but I want to talk about the thugs first.
Matt: What about them?
Daron: This is what we basically are told. When another hero insults Kyle he first pops said hero then he attacks random muggers and drug dealers. But when a group of mobsters all shoot at him and literally try to KILL him, he just says "Stop it", takes away their guns and goes on and has a nice sit down with them?
Matt: Yeah. And Jade chews him out for that.
Daron: Which was good, but him doing it was the unbelievable part.
Matt: So maybe he's trying a more reasoned approach? Or maybe he's hoping "Hey, if I don't go in looking for trouble, they'll be reasonable.” Heck, I'd even be willing to allow that Kyle is at the point in New York that when he shows up, a crook will just surrender rather than draw things out. It does happen in the Superman books in Metropolis.
Daron: Maybe, but it's hard to believe that he wouldn't be more upset about someone trying to kill him than insulting him
Matt: Well, it isn’t like he has much to fear from a bunch of gangsters with guns.
Daron: I guess, just something that annoyed me
Matt: I understand. And I have to stretch to find a way to justify it myself. I don’t know. I think one writer should have written this story.
Daron: I think so too, and I don't think it needed to be done as a "crossover"
Matt: It is weird that two good writers can’t make something together. I like Winnick usually. And I liked the solo story Rabb wrote for the GL Secret Files even more. It was one of the more thoughtful and mature stories in recent memory and showed a great respect for the past history that Winnick often ignores. Not much superheroics. Just pure talking heads and emotion.
Daron: I read that same story and liked it. That's the type of thing I was hoping we’d see here. Not some intergalctic bleach smuggling story where half the action is between the two “heroes” fighting.
Matt: Just action action action…
Daron: Have you noticed that both Ollie and Kyle try to be Batman throughout the story?
Matt: Well, Ollie has always been Batman lite.
Daron: True.
Matt: And Kyle? Well... he's been getting closer and closer to it.
Daron: Maybe that's their problem. They both want to be Batman and feel threatened by the competition?
Matt: Hmmm... not so much. I think perhaps they are both used to being the one in charge and don't like having another person pushing on the top of the pyramid. I mean, they DO work well with others. Ollie has his extended family and Kyle has his group of Lanterns and Darkstars....
Daron: Well as Jade says, what spandex wearing male doesn't?
Matt: True.
Daron: As you said earlier though in relation to the Kyle/Ollie situation, I think the whole thing with the children really came out of nowhere. I’ve read the title since issue #1, and it's been so long since they've mentioned that he works with children that I forgot about it entirely. I also have some problems with the continuity.
Matt: Yes, I remember you said that you were wondering about where this story fit in the timeline, considering Kyle's presence on Earth. For that matter, Connor says Ollie needs a vacation. What about the vacation he took last issue? The whole “finding his roots” trip he took back to the island where he first perfected his archery skills?
Daron: I don’t know.
Matt: Me either. I mean, this COULD be happening before Kyle went into space, but after the whole Archer's Quest story line. And the one-shot story COULD take place after this. But we don't want to nitpick the hows and whys of when this happens. We just want a decent story!
Daron: But that's what we do, as fans and readers.
Matt: Yes. I mean that we do this, but we shouldn’t have to.
Daron: Right. We want a cohesive linear story but we shouldn't have to fight tooth and nail to make sense of the different stories take place. Would it be so hard to throw in a little box saying these events take place before Kyle left for space or something?
Matt: True. But DC is trying to give their writers greater freedom to tell good stories and not be slaves to continuity. To give the best example of this right now, in JLA Batman and Wonder Woman are dating while in Batman, he's dealing with his feelings for Catwoman. And I heard there's yet another woman in one of the other Batman books....
The Art
Daron: What do you think of the art?
Matt: The constructs are gorgeous. I did laughed out loud at the sumo wrestlers and the one gangster yeling "Boss! He's throwing Big Japanese Guys at us! RUNNNNN!"
Daron: That was amusing.
Matt: The sumo. The demented elves. Ther’s the Kyle Rayner we know and love.
Daron: Oscar the Grouch too.
Matt: I missed that.
Daron: When one of the muggers was about to hit Kyle with a trash can? Oscar pops out and hits the mugger.
Matt: Oh yeah! I forgot that one.
Daron: That was a nice moment. The constructs were good.
Matt: Yeah, but most of the time the artwork seems a bit too heavily inked.
Daron: My thoughts exactly.
Matt: I mean, I know we're going for a darker atmosphere than usual.... but when the guy who has a glowing green chest emblem looks like he's lost in the shadows…
Daron: At first I wanted to rip into the penciler, but it's hard to tell what his original lines might have been.
Matt: The penciler and inker are one in the same, in this case. Art by Charlie Adlard.
Daron: So why this guy? I've never even heard of him before. You'd think they would want a big name on something like they've been hyping so much.
Matt: Yeah. I miss Phil Hester and Matt Wagner.
Daron: My original thought stands, then. The inks are far too heavy. I want to know what the pencils look liked before. I can't even honestly say I don't like them cause I can't see them for the inks.
Matt: Well, there are places where you can see the pencils, but even there they are too finely detailed. Like the scenes in the woods at the end with Ollie? Everything looks sketchy... like the pine trees where it looks like every individual needle was drawn.
Daron: It's funny how clean the constructs look in relation to everything else.
Matt: Yes. And aside from the overshadowing, there are some points where the proportions are weird too. Like the third panel on page 21? There is an Up-view shot of Ollie where his arms and head are freakishly tiny, but his torso and legs look like Chris Farley.
Daron: Nice!
Matt: I don't know. I don't mind some shadowy artists. Tony Harris, for example, is one of my favorites. But he usually keeps his lines simple. This is just too complex, except for when the constructs are done.
Daron: My thoughts exactly. Tony Harris is great with shadows, but his lines are cleaner.
Matt: See, at first I thought the art was intentionally like this. Like the shadows were to represent Ollie's world... and here comes Kyle, butting in with his big cartoony light shapes. Like they are trying to combine the art to fit both characters and creating something that doesn't work for either.
Daron: Yeah I thought that too, but Kyle's scenes are just as dark
Matt: In this issue, they are yes. Last issue that seemed like a valid idea but the whole thing is too shadowy this time.
Daron: Getting back to the plot for a second, earlier you mentioned Ollie and the kids on the mountain…I didn't get that scene at all. Who are these kids? I've been reading the series and I can't remember having ever seen them before. Who are they and why do they know he's GA?
Matt: Did you read the Kevin Smith GA series? Ollie's day job is running the Star City Youth Center. It wasn't touched on during the Meltzer run, but presumably he's still been working at that.
Daron: Okay, but do they know he's Green Arrow?
Matt: No. He just tells them to stay put while he takes a look at something. He never says anything about putting on his costume or anything. He just does the protective responsible elder thing: stay put, I'll check it out... call for help if I don't come back.
Daron: Looking back over the last few panels it's kind of funny how his bow just appears…
Matt: Tell you the truth, I thought it was odder that Ollie has a celphone than his suddenly having a bow. I mean, he could have put it together while on the run…
Daron: It's not a compound bow show in the art.
Matt: Well, I know (comic geek moment) Ollie does not like using compound bows.
Daron: I know. In fact he made fun of Arsenal in an earlier issue for using one.
Matt: Aha! So he DID pull a bow out of nowhere!
Daron: Exactly. To me that's bad story telling, plain and simple. It's the little things like that which make people take notice.
Matt: Yeah.
The Big Finish
Matt: I don't know anymore... I really want to like this story. There are parts that I love... and parts that I hate. And the whole thing is just kinda... blah. Last week I couldn't wait to see this issue to see what would happen next. This time, I can't wait for the whole mess to end.
Daron: My thoughts exactly, I wanted to like this story a lot, GL is one of my favorite characters, and I've always found GA to be interesting. I've liked their interaction before, but this just doesn't feel right in this story.
Matt: I still want to know what is going to happen next…especially with the final page cliffhanger.
Daron: The story line has a lot of potential, but we’ve basically learned nothing more than that these aliens are using bleach to make drugs in the two issues.
Matt: Yeah, it does feel like they are dragging it out a bit. Still, it has some good points. I’ll give this a solid 4.0. Not the best or worst thing ever written, but it should be a LOT better.
Daron: Agreed. 4.0 for me too.
Monday, April 14, 2003
Green Arrow #23 - A Review
Written by: Ben Raab
Penciled by: Charlie Adlard
Inked by: Charlie Adlard
Colored by: Titjana Wood
Lettered by: Jack Morelli
Editor: Bob Schreck
Publisher: DC Comics
A while back, I expressed some concerns about how this mini-series might turn out. I spoke of how a traditional Green Lantern/Green Arrow team-up story would be folly since Kyle Rayner and Oliver Queen are too similar as personalities to have the same conflicts as Hal Jordan and Ollie or even Kyle and Connor Hawke during their many groupings. Silly me, being so unique myself, forgot that often times having to work with someone who is very much like you can be more annoying than dealing with your total opposite. And that is what happens at the very end of this story.
In two acts, in which we are introduced to Green Arrow (Oliver Queen) and Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner) as they both discover something rotten in the state of Denmark. Oliver Queen is just about to confront the gang who made him look like foolish in front of the police earlier when he finds that a grinning Kyle Rayner has already captured them. Kyle then smugly asks if Ollie wants to do a team-up and “stick it to the fat-cats”.
Now, my first reaction was that Kyle was being a major jerk, sarcastic and flippant as he is. And then I remembered that the last time he and Ollie did meet that Ollie pranked him big time and stole something off the JLA Watchtower right under Kyle’s nose (See GA #19 for that tale) . More than that, he gave Kyle an apparently faked speech about respecting him, but being uncomfortable because he reminded him of his own advancing years.
Now when you consider that, its more than natural for Kyle to be a little ticked off about having to deal with Ollie and wanting to show him up in his own home town. It is just as natural for Ollie to be fiercely territorial, unlikely to put up with being called an “old-man” and ready to punch Kyle’s lights out the minute he gets any lip. Passable conflict achieved and the premise of this new Hard-Traveling Heroes story established.
The art lends to this feeling of things not belonging. Adlard’s style emphasizes shadows and detail, which lends itself well to the first part of the book where Green Arrow is tackling a group of drug dealers. It also serves to make the light generating Green Lantern look all the more powerful in the second act, where he glows in a dark nightclub and evening sky. Finally, in the third part, it makes Kyle look all the more out of place in Star City; so as he pushes into Oliver’s territory, so does he appear to have pushed his way into this book from the brighter pages of Dale Eaglesham.
Of course the book does have a few flaws. Devout a Green Arrow fan as I am, even I have trouble believing the chain of events in the first part where Oliver Queen manages to disable three cars fleeing the scene of a crime, while seemingly perusing on foot. And as nitpicky as this is, I can’t ever see Green Arrow saying “Uh-oh” after trying to anger someone enough into starting a fight. Still, this book hits the target more often than not (ah… sly archery humor) and I am looking forward to Part Two in Green Lantern #162 next week
Penciled by: Charlie Adlard
Inked by: Charlie Adlard
Colored by: Titjana Wood
Lettered by: Jack Morelli
Editor: Bob Schreck
Publisher: DC Comics
A while back, I expressed some concerns about how this mini-series might turn out. I spoke of how a traditional Green Lantern/Green Arrow team-up story would be folly since Kyle Rayner and Oliver Queen are too similar as personalities to have the same conflicts as Hal Jordan and Ollie or even Kyle and Connor Hawke during their many groupings. Silly me, being so unique myself, forgot that often times having to work with someone who is very much like you can be more annoying than dealing with your total opposite. And that is what happens at the very end of this story.
In two acts, in which we are introduced to Green Arrow (Oliver Queen) and Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner) as they both discover something rotten in the state of Denmark. Oliver Queen is just about to confront the gang who made him look like foolish in front of the police earlier when he finds that a grinning Kyle Rayner has already captured them. Kyle then smugly asks if Ollie wants to do a team-up and “stick it to the fat-cats”.
Now, my first reaction was that Kyle was being a major jerk, sarcastic and flippant as he is. And then I remembered that the last time he and Ollie did meet that Ollie pranked him big time and stole something off the JLA Watchtower right under Kyle’s nose (See GA #19 for that tale) . More than that, he gave Kyle an apparently faked speech about respecting him, but being uncomfortable because he reminded him of his own advancing years.
Now when you consider that, its more than natural for Kyle to be a little ticked off about having to deal with Ollie and wanting to show him up in his own home town. It is just as natural for Ollie to be fiercely territorial, unlikely to put up with being called an “old-man” and ready to punch Kyle’s lights out the minute he gets any lip. Passable conflict achieved and the premise of this new Hard-Traveling Heroes story established.
The art lends to this feeling of things not belonging. Adlard’s style emphasizes shadows and detail, which lends itself well to the first part of the book where Green Arrow is tackling a group of drug dealers. It also serves to make the light generating Green Lantern look all the more powerful in the second act, where he glows in a dark nightclub and evening sky. Finally, in the third part, it makes Kyle look all the more out of place in Star City; so as he pushes into Oliver’s territory, so does he appear to have pushed his way into this book from the brighter pages of Dale Eaglesham.
Of course the book does have a few flaws. Devout a Green Arrow fan as I am, even I have trouble believing the chain of events in the first part where Oliver Queen manages to disable three cars fleeing the scene of a crime, while seemingly perusing on foot. And as nitpicky as this is, I can’t ever see Green Arrow saying “Uh-oh” after trying to anger someone enough into starting a fight. Still, this book hits the target more often than not (ah… sly archery humor) and I am looking forward to Part Two in Green Lantern #162 next week
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