Thursday, October 18, 2007

The Last Damned Thing I'm Writing About "The Juddass" for a while.


Judd just gave a rebuttal to the question of "why didn't Black Canary just use her Canary Cry?" at the above link. I will limit my response to five points.

1. To quote The Joker ne: Bruce Timm, "If you have to explain a joke, then there is no joke!" The same principal applies to action scenes - if you have to explain what is happening afterwards and the art doesn't match up to your explanation, than you wrote a bad story.

2. There is no point in the The Wedding Special that you can look at and say "Ah. THIS is where Everyman switched with Ollie", by Judd's own admission. So Judd Winick just basically said that he not only won't bother explaining how his stories fit into the continuity of other people's work - he won't even bother explaining the flow of action in his own books!

3. It is never a good idea to insult your potential readership's intelligence or bring question to your own integrity as a professional by asking - less than a month after you were swearing blind that you were originally going to kill off Black Canary, but that you thought a story about her dealing with Ollie's death was ultimately more interesting - if people thought you were really serious about killing Ollie off. When you start talking about alternative storylines as a way to defuse anger over what you wrote... yes, we do sort of presume that we should take you seriously. It's called taking someone at their word. You should look into it.

4. Dismissing your own admitted failings as a storyteller by pointing out that George Lucas used the same shortcuts in his writing does not excuse you from being a bad storyteller.

5. The minute you disrespect Stan Lee by suggesting that he wrote the foundation of the Silver Age of Comics at Marvel Comics during "a drunken bender" or that he ever worked in an altered state... that's the minute you lose any right you have for me to regard you as anything other than a complete and total asshat.


  1. You know, I love DC. Sure, I came into the hobby as a Marvel-ite, but for the past several years, I've been solidly in DC's camp. I dig what they do.
    But I just can't accept Winick. Absolutely hated his run on Green Lantern (back when my boy Kyle was the sole ring-slinger). His run on Green Arrow was uneven as hell. It's gotten to the point now that I won't pick up a book that I would normally pick up if he's the writer behind it. The ONLY reason I picked up a few issues of The Outsiders was because of the Checkmate crossover and Rucka's involvement in the piece as a whole.
    Hell, even going back to Marvel - I was digging Exiles. Loved the concept. But there was no way I was going to pick up that book while he was writing it. My collection of Exiles begins with Bedard's run; what came before is best left unknown as far as I'm concerned.
    I don't get it. Podcasters I respect, writers and reviewers I respect fawn all over this guy. I don't understand.
    Thanks for being someone who DOES get it . . . Winick needs to move on like Devin Grayson did . . . Stop peeing in my sandbox . . .

  2. 6. For any of this to work, Everyman must have EATEN a portion of Oliver in order to turn into him. This has all but been dropped from the character with no explanation.
    7. You do not need 9 pages to show Canary's cry, or the use of a pressure point.
    Regarding the comments about Stan Lee: When Judd Winick can provide proof of his statements he can make them, and even then not in this context. When Judd Winick produces as many beloved characters and stories as Stan Lee, then maybe he can make it.
    Same with Dan Didio. What right does he have to kill the New Gods? Is *he* Jack Kirby? No. Nuff said.

  3. Re: 6. Good point. I skimmed through most of 52, so I forgot about Everyman's power limitation.
    I suspect, however, that if pressed Judd will say "What? You wanted me to show you Deathstroke breaking into Ollie's place, clipping his toenails, and then getting that to Everyman?"
    As for Dido and the New Gods... I take comfort in the fact, though I am not a big New Gods fan or indeed one of those who holds all Kirby work as sacred ... it would be ludicrously easy for a writer down the line to bring them all back.
    I can just picture Darkseid now. "You truly thought you could kill a god? How ammusing..."

  4. Actually, several people I trust swear Winick's Exiles work is pretty good. Which, given that he created most of the characters in it (or that version of them), I can believe.
    Also: credit where credit is due - Exiles was Winick's original concept. Well, original as "Sliders in the Marvel Multiverse" can be, anyway.
    Thanks for the kind words, though.

  5. I still prefer my 'petname' for him. Winsuck.

  6. So do I.
    If nothing else, had I stuck with that, I wouldn't have just gotten the e-mail from a painfully stupid Win-hack fan who asked why I couldn't spell "Judas" properly...
    That would ALMOST be clever if "Judas" actually made some kind of sense...

  7. I love that in that Rama article's comments, MattB, the administrator has basically called anyone who doesn't like what Winick has done as "choosing not to understand" what he was trying to do.
    Yeah, Rama is so impartial ... really.

  8. Well, MattB has to do that. Otherwise, he might lose the goodwill of the creators who give him exclusives wherein they make things up and lie to their readers...

  9. I take comfort in the fact that it's written by Jim Starlin. His major character kills are notorious for not staying dead.
    Jason Todd, Captain Mar-Vell, The Weird, Warlock, Gamora. They've all been killed by Starlin and they've all been resurrected, either by him or somebody else.

  10. ::raises hand:: Honestly, Winick's work on EXILES wasn't really asshatish - though some of the elements that have subsequently made his work so offensive were there even then....
    I can't help but wonder if he doesn't do better with characters he can either create out of whole cloth, or bend around to fit what he wants to do w/them,
    Tim Liebe
    Dreaded Spouse-Creature of Tamora Pierce
    - and co-writer of Marvel's White Tiger comic - TBP out Now :)

  11. You know until I saw people complaining recently about MattB and his "interviews" I always just assumed that Newsarama just had the creator come up with his own questions, answer them and mail them to be posted...

  12. "I can just picture Darkseid now. 'You truly thought you could kill a god? How ammusing...'"
    Especially since a revivied Darkseid pops up in various Legion of Superhero stories....although my head hurts when trying to figure out which of those stories are in continuity or not.

  13. Tim,
    Based on what I've seen, he does.
    I actually liked his Blood and Water mini-series for Vertigo, because even though it did contain all of Judd's hallmarks (characters all all young attractive hipsters, main character dying of a disease, lots of sex humor), it was original characters who were being made to crack wise with it being natural and not Green Arrow and Black Canary rambling on like a group of sex-obsessed teenagers.

  14. Considering that's one of the few Legion stories DC still keeps in print in TP form? I hope so.
    And hey - here's something to consider; they're finally bring Ra's Al Ghul back. Probably because someone pointed out that with the current Legion team, Ra's is destined to become President of the Galaxy in 1000 years...

  15. You know, I wrote all of this BEFORE I heard about all this bruhaha over the Bendis interview and everybody else realizing what I already knew; Matt Brady is to any creator willing to give him the time of day what Ann Coulter is to The Republicn Party.

  16. I read Exiles a long time back, before I took much notice of writers' names, and I recall enjoying the early issues, but wishing that they would get to the point and explain what was going on, who was the character that sent them off on their mission and why. I suppose it's easy when you are only writing part of a series to set up an interesting premise and know that you are never going to be required to follow through on it.
    And frankly I don't care what Stan may or may not have been on when he did his best work. Do something monumentally stupid, and you can be censured for taking drugs or drink or whatever, do something creative and incredibly successful while doing so, and no one is going to care.
    Marionette who has no LJ

  17. Assuming Stan WAS on anything at the time. Which I seriously doubt he was.
    If he was, I'd like to think he'd have known a bit more modern teen slang back in the 60s.
    Honestly, Amazing Spider-Man was many things but an accurate reflection of how teenagers of the 60s talked is not one of them.